Misdiagnosed: Stop Managing What You Need to Solve

Jim: Hello friends, we are back for the next Sunday podcast. Jim Shepard here with my co-host, the one, the only, the amazing, the husband to Jess and dad to an amazing group of kids, Frank Beer.

Frank: Heyo, here we are. Buddy, we made it.

Jim: We made it.

Frank: We're back. We're back with another episode.

Jim: Back again. I can't believe it. We're going to shift today because you're going to do most of the talking today, not me.

Frank: That's a shocker. That's a shocker. Well, that's the way it's starting out.

Jim: We'll see where we land on all of this. That's funny. So, you wrote this blog post, two parts on Substack a little while back and my reaction to it was I went and bought you a big old flashlight and I use it. It's an awesome flashlight. It's like a laser beam because in the article you actually used that idea of a flashlight and the title of it was misdiagnosed. You put it on your Substack. You had just started a Substack and was this your first article?

Frank: I think it might have been your first second. Something like that.

Jim: And as soon as I started reading it, I was hooked. Because you saw something that I see over and over again and you see over and over again. You know, it's something that I'm not going to say every, but it's probably almost every leader faces, but a remarkable few actually name it and deal with it. And that's when I saw it, I was like, man, this is right on. And you called it misdiagnosed because it really explores a dangerous but subtle pattern in leadership and that is, you know, calling stuff out. That you see and reframing drift as a season, dressing avoidance in the language of wisdom, things like that that you and I see over and over again. And what it starts off is it feels like emotional self-protection at first. But it becomes a bad habit over time. And finds itself in the culture and the roots of the organization. And now it's a lot harder to deal with. So, you know, it can feel like a conversation about strategy. But it's really more about courage. It's really more about courage. The courage to name it and deal with it. So, let's kind of start. What was the one or two things? You and I are pretty much alike in that when we write about something, there's something that drove that for sure. What drove you writing about this?

Frank: So, there's a common phrase, I don't know who gets credit for it. First time I heard it was Andy Stanley, but somebody important in the kingdom came up with this phrase and he probably quoted something a small group of names and they get credit for everything. It's one of them, but that's first place I heard it from. So, so that I can say that let's go with that is some things are a problem to solve and some things are a tension to manage. And that's a powerful statement and a true statement.

What the teaching was the principle I was hearing that day was there are some things that aren't a simple solve. We're going to live in a tension throughout our time of ministry or work and it's just one of those things to navigate. Well, I started to observe a misappropriation of that statement from cowardly or cautious or leaders that just weren't quite ready to take that step. So he started to declare things a tension that were a problem because if I call it a tension, I got to work on it, but maybe I don't need to go fix it.

And so what really first ignited in my heart was I was with a friend, a ministry friend that you and I know well sitting at a table and he started processing his organization and some of the challenges he was facing and I just paused and I stopped taking notes and he noticed I stopped taking notes and he said, "Frank, do you have a thought?" And I said, "Yes, sir." I said, "We have an issue. You've declared a tension a problem that needs to be solved."

And we just sat in it and sat in silence for a moment. And so that's what really started to kind of rumble this idea in my heart was, hey, let's not take a good principle, a good idea and misuse it because we want to avoid conflict or avoid actually going and fixing things.

Jim: So I think what I hear you saying is we're going to relabel something so that we don't have to deal with it right away.

Frank: That's right. If we call it a tension, then we don't have to address it or we can kind of ignore it. And so then that idea of the flashlight showed up is if we're going to be a disciplined leader that wants to lead something great and steward well what God's entrusted to our care, we need to not only navigate the things that are presented right in front of us, but go looking in the corners that nobody else is looking to see if there are problems or tensions that need to be resolved. The challenge is many people I think because work is hard and life and days are full, we will take a flashlight and pass it across a corner of cobwebs and identify something's over there and just keep moving. Just don't look in the corner. Don't go back over there. Because that's going to be a whole another thing I've got to deal with. And so there's a level of avoidance that shows up. And so misdiagnosed was us saying, "Hey, mislabeling something and/or avoiding something because that's just easier to do."

Jim: So, you know, you said something in there to the effect of dealing with the issue with the real issue. Is going to cost something. Talk about that.

Frank: It absolutely does. Every time we choose to address a problem, there's going to be relational cost, energy cost, effort cost, focused cost. It suddenly demands something from you when you relabel it properly. And because of that, there's an avoidance. I say in ministry, most people when they sign up to get into ministry, I think they're signing up through some semblance of 1 Thessalonians chapter 2, where Paul says, "I treated you as a father treats his own child, encouraging, comforting, and urging you to live a life worthy of God." When I meet pastors and leaders, that's where they start. I want to encourage, I want to comfort, and I want to urge. Then they find that urging is hard. So now they do a little less urging and focus on encouraging and comforting. And then over time, if we're not careful, we will get to the point where we're just giving high-fives, doing lots of encouragement, and not doing the comforting and urging. There are days, days are relentless in our work and in our efforts. So there are days where we will start to avoid the hard things and go with the things that kind of manage as long as they're not immediately catastrophic.

Jim: I mean, one of the things you said in there, I think I've got this quote right. Avoidance in wisdom's clothing is still avoidance.

Frank: That's and we'll hide behind wisdom or patience. I'm just trying to be careful here or maybe even use some God language, some spiritual language or things like that when the issue is very clear and the leader just doesn't want to deal with it. I actually wrote in there, misdiagnosis becomes a sanctuary for the tired leader, the insecure leader, and the leader running low on emotional margin. There's something about this idea that like if I get to misdiagnose it, I don't have to address the real problem, but because I've labeled it, I can move on. I've completed it by diagnosing it. Even if it's a misdiagnosis, I've now identified it. We can make a plan of action or not because it's either a big deal or not and then move on. And yet where that shows up and the tired leader, the insecure leader or the leader running low on emotional margin. So we start to avoid it and call it wisdom.

Jim: Strong. So what happens? What's that shift inside of a leader if you know, you talk about the flashlight and the power of the flashlight to really shine light on the issue, but a lot of leaders don't. I mean, they just turn the flashlight. I mean, and I'm talking about good leaders. What trips the switch that a leader just turns that flashlight off and doesn't want to look or doesn't want to see?

Frank: And the reality there are enough problems that will arise without the use of the flashlight. Oh, no. You don't have to go looking for them. They're going to come at you either way. And so there is this fatigue that comes in. We can walk around with energy and zeal and preach with boldness, but that doesn't mean that we're not tired. And what happens is we get tired or we're dealing with personal stuff at home or whatever it may be where we just don't have enough bandwidth to take on another thing and certainly not enough bandwidth to go looking for another thing.

And so that's what people are going to have a conversation with someone. It may be a conversation with yourself or someone else. And conflict avoidance is this gravity that occurs when we're tired. When we're tired and exhausted, we will avoid conflict no matter the cost. Sometimes very unwise. So, we won't address that issue. We won't address that dynamic between those two leaders. We won't address that one of these doesn't look like all the others in the room and there's something not adding up. We'll be like, "It's good enough. We're still up and to the right."

And I will tell you, growth is a great mask for misdiagnosis. Because we can be growing and giving each other high fives and it will give us a especially if you're tired. And when you're growing, you're tired. There's lots to navigate. We have a friend that their building is busting at the seams and they're just always having to deal with the city with parking and just everything you can imagine. Their growth is creating all kinds of problems. And if we were to go sit down with them and say, "Hey, are you looking for those other problems?" He's going to look at us like we're crazy, right? And so we don't have time for that. And so the challenge is when does a leader have time? Here's when a leader has time. When they're new.

And what happens is you need to ask the question if you are an established leader I would encourage you to ask yourself this question if somebody comes and takes your job where are they going to go look that you should have been looking and that's a great way to hold yourself accountable to go I'm not going to stop looking I'm not going to hide behind the growth I'm not going to hide behind the applause and I'm going to keep looking keep trying to improve and so there's this opportunity when somebody comes in they start asking question why do we do this why do we do this, why do we do this? There's a tendency there. The spiritual muscle or the leadership muscle we need to develop is to be able to do that in perpetuity without a requirement of flipping staff in order to identify the problems.

Jim: That's right. Well, you know that I mean, you've heard me say any number of times with new people here. I mean, with Pedro, who's standing right there in the room with us when he came on board, I want you to use the first six months here while you're still an outsider. You're not a part of us yet. You work for us and you're becoming that. But you still got some outsider perspective. I want you when you see something that doesn't make sense. Ask the question, why do we do it this way? Because you know what? There's a really good chance that we might be holding on to something that needs to be let go right now or needs to be reframed. Now, but it may be something that once we explain it to you, you're like, "Oh, now that makes sense." But when people are new, they have a perspective that no one else has. It's just like when you and I go in as consultants, we have a perspective as an outsider and we can see things that they can't see. Now, it's not, you know, necessarily our lane to bring them up. But if a pastor comes up to me and says, "Hey, Jim, you've been sitting in our staff room for a couple of meetings here. Anything you see in there that's off, this happened." Oh, there was definitely something that was off. There was one that was not like the others. And I just said to him, and I would never volunteer this, right? But it was sitting right there. And he asked me, and I said, 'Well, pastor, I think there's one that's not like the others." And you know what? He looks at me and he says, "I know. I know." Why you're not dealing with it? There's always a cost. Call out. There's always a cost.

Frank: I'm talking to a pastor friend of mine. They navigated a leadership transition a few months ago that was two years in the making and I cannot see any fruit from the delay. Like I can't look at it. We tried to play chess, tried to figure everything out, right? And just looking at it and go now it just costs more. And so what happens is there's this leadership chop that has to be developed by leaders, this skill set that has to be developed where we can keep new eyes in the midst of established leadership. And so it goes, okay, can we be wise? Can we be more seasoned? Can we grow in this but not stop looking? The challenge is the new people, okay? They look if they're looking to get a leg ahead like they're trying to step over somebody or they're just trying to manage what's been entrusted to their care, not cause a problem. Right? So often times new people don't feel like they have permission to do it. So if your organization isn't built right, your senior leadership is so max loaded, they're not looking for problems and your new people are afraid to say anything. And so now you can have a real difficult cycle if nobody's looking. And here's what I would say. Love Pedro. Glad he's on the team. I'm sure he can add value and ask questions just like the new youth pastor and the new executive team member, whatever. At the end of the day, Jim, if you and I are walking around with flashlights, we're not doing our job properly. And so, we need that fresh set of eyes, but at the end of the day, we don't get to abdicate that to our new people. They can give us something that we don't get otherwise. But as leaders, we still have to be the ones that are willing to walk around with the flashlight looking for problems. And nobody wants to do that. But the reality is, if you don't want to do it and you're not doing it, I promise you those problems are there.

Jim: You know, and I think what we're touching on here is that anytime that problem, that flashlight situation tends to involve an employee, it becomes even harder for churches. And it becomes harder because we free frame it as like, oh gosh, I don't want to let them go. Well, what about the other six people who are in the room? All of whom know that that person is dysfunctional, not carrying their fair share of the weight, and doesn't fit in the room, and looking at you as a leader, and it's like, when are you going to do something about this?

Frank: That's exactly right. Back in the day, I'll use a volunteer example. Back in the day, I was at Elevation. I was bouncing around between campuses as the NextG leader, and I go to this one campus, and I had met somebody on the way in that served in one of our kids' rooms. Okay, we had a great interaction. Got her name. I never met her before. Got her name. We talked for a minute and then I go about my day. Well, later that service, I come back around and I walk by that room and the room is calm and all the kids are happy. They're probably saying prayers and singing about Jesus. I mean, this room was awesome. And I said, "Guys, thank you so much for all that you do." And by the way, and I called out the person in the room that I had met in the lobby cuz there's only one I knew by name. And Grace, thank you so much for making me feel so welcome today or whatever her name was. And then I walked out. That was like throwing a grenade.

Because here's what I didn't know. No context, no understanding. Grace was a problem. Grace always showed up late. Grace always was gossiping and sharing and creating tension. And so I generically affirmed everybody else and pointed out the one wrong problem. So I stirred a problem. Here's what I would say. Maybe as leaders you're not doing it that overtly and screwing up that bad. But if you know there's a problem and you're ignoring it, everybody else is saying that you've endorsed it and approved it. And so they may not hear you verbally doing a shout out, but that's what they're hearing and seeing by the fact that that's not being addressed.

Jim: So good. You know, and with employees, they struggle because, well, you know, I just hate to do this. Look, one of the things I've said over and over again, give them extra severance. Keeping them around is not kindness. It's not kindness to the other people. And it's truly not kindness to them ultimately because they're not a fit and you need to free them up so they can go find another place where they're a better fit on another team where they can flourish and thrive and they're not thriving here. Give them double the severance they deserve. Hey, if they get six weeks, give them 12. I mean, that's a lot of money. It'd be the least expensive thing you do. Way less expensive than keeping them around. And not every person has taken that advice, but I can tell you this. Every person that has ever taken that advice, every one of them have come back to me, it's like, man, everything within me said, "You were wrong about that and you were so right." It's like because I saw it when I ran a big team in the corporate world, you know, I remember the first time that I had to let somebody go. I just kept putting it off and putting it off and putting it off, you know, and my boss let me keep putting it off and putting it off and he's like, "Hey, man. At some point you've got to deal with this." And so we got rid of them and two weeks notice and I let them work out their two weeks. He said, "Why you let them work out the two weeks?" I was like, "I'm trying to be nice." I never did that again ever. It was the worst two weeks of my life, right? It's a lot less expensive and all I was doing, you know, and they become a lame duck and they're not committed to your team and there's nothing you can do to make them more committed to your team. You know, and so, it's things like that that you don't feel like are kind, but they are the kindest thing you can do for the people who are staying around. Right. And you can't forget that. It's not when you're running a team, it's not about the one. It's about all of them. And the one might be the one that's getting in the way of your team optimizing at the highest level to function in excellence for optimization of the mission and vision objectives that God's put in front of your church.

Frank: Right. Here's the frustrating thing. That's a very inconvenient truth, Jim. Then the biggest challenge probably just like that pastor you talked about earlier, somebody or some department or something is coming to mind. The crazy thing is most of the people listening to this podcast right now don't need to go get a flashlight to go identify where the problem is. They've just been avoiding it. But they're a good enough leader, strong enough leader to know where the challenge is. They just haven't been willing to shine a light on it and go deal with it. So, you know, in the framing of the article, I talk about using the flashlight to go look for problems. Most of the challenge we have when we're dealing with misdiagnosis is with the problems that we're already very aware of.

Jim: So, you said in there in one place you said that most leaders don't lack solutions, they lack accuracy. That feels like you're kind of poking the bear a little bit. Is that the same thing you're trying to say there is that they just lack the accuracy?

Frank: They're willing to call it something else for convenience and so they're willing to say, well, you know, this is kind of going on or, you know, they're in a tough season at home or they're navigating this or whatever. And so we'll kind of give these excuses and so we're inaccurate in our description because that's actually more convenient for us in the short term. Where it's better for us to say, "Hey, how do we own this?" And so I like to say, you know, if anybody's transitioning off the team or we're trying to figure out the right space, our first assumption is what do we need to do differently? What can we do better to set them up for success? What should we change? What should we do? Let's take as much ownership as possible because then when I realize that there's not a fit or we've got to address a problem or an issue, I can be really confident that we've done everything we can to help set them up for success.

Jim: So you've got the flashlight on, you see the problem, you know you're going to have to deal with it. What does it take for that leader who is reluctant to have the courage to step up and deal with it? What's the flip the switch moment there?

Frank: So I think it's a couple things. Obviously be praying through all this. That's obvious. I think there's a trusted leader inside their organization that they can go to that can put in courage. We use the phrase encourage, right? It's to put in courage. Sometimes when we're navigating a difficult circumstance, we need that leader, that wingman, that elder, that board member that's like, "Hey, I'm navigating this. Can I process this with you?" and have them kind of put some courage in you and confidence that you're seeing it the right way that they understand or giving you some questions from another perspective on how to navigate this or what to ask next. I think that can go a long way. So, first obviously pray.

Second is to figure out who's going to put some courage in you in navigating this. Who's alongside of you? Not that you're rallying a team to go attack somebody or anything like that, but I just need to know how to frame this up. This comes up in generosity often times. We're having a pastor that's having a big meeting. They just need somebody to speak some life and encouragement and remind them why they're called to do what they do. The same is true in these scenarios. You just need somebody speaking life that's given a fresh perspective. And I would say this, the way that you're currently handling that circumstance, a good evaluative tool that I didn't put in the article, but I thought about later is, is this the same advice that you'd give to a peer or a friend navigating the same thing? And so, if you're handling it differently than you would have somebody else handle it, that's probably an issue to resolve.

Jim: That's not a tension to manage. That is not a tension to manage. You know, I mean, the whole article, Frank, everything you wrote in there was It's why I love the flashlight idea because all of us have those corners where the light is not as bright. And that's where the things that we need to deal with tend to go to hide. And if we're not looking there, then we've got, you know, stuff that's just inadvertent out there that could jump up and bite us. Some of it manifests itself in bigger ways. Sometimes it's smaller things, but to have the light on, to have the courage to go in there and deal with it and not just use some emotional language to reframe it so I don't have to deal with it today. I think that's the big idea that you were trying to get to.

Frank: That's the big idea. And along the way, listen, when you turn the light on, I mean, it fills up that room, that area for sure. But it will show some things that you've done wrong, too. And that just doesn't feel fun. That doesn't feel good. People process that differently. But at the end of the day, we're trying to get better. And as best I know, all of us have been entrusted with something to steward, lead, to care for our families, our personal development, our organizations, our churches. We're all responsible to steward this well. And we're to look at the master and say, "Hey, here's what you trusted me with this, and here's what I went and did with it." And we're looking for the master to say, "Well done, good and faithful servant." Right? So I think at some point when we get bogged down into the minutia of the problem, we have to really evaluate, is this the best way to steward what God has entrusted to our care, or do I need to go clean that up?

And I think it's hard to think about the master coming back and going, "Why didn't you speak to that? Why didn't you address that? Why did you leave that for so long that way?" Because I'll say this, every once in a while, Jess will get in a busy travel season and there's this lady named Roalene. Roalene will come and she'll clean our house for us and just help us get in order, which is great. With six kids, really grateful for the help. Could use it every once a little shot in the arm. Could be helpful. I will tell you if I ever came home and realized that Roalene had started cutting corners and she started just sweeping all the dust into the pantry, you know. So I go to the pantry one day and it's just a mess in the pantry for my home. I'm going to be like that is not okay. That is unacceptable.

That's what I'm talking about with shining a light. Ultimately, we report to Jesus and Jesus has entrusted us with whatever we've got for a reason. And I just don't want him going and looking in the pantry and going, "Oh, this is where you avoided everything. This is where you put all the problems. Why didn't you just keep the house in order? Why did you let it get here?" And so I can tell you this, I don't get it right. Sometimes I address problems too quickly. Sometimes more often than not, too slowly. But I think that there's something about having it on a radar and be passionate enough to pursue it and try to get better in this area.

Jim: That's right. It's just such a good article that you wrote and maybe some of you have seen that article already, but hopefully this will bring a little more context to it. I wanted to get Frank's voice and the tone of his voice to speak even though you could read the article for yourself and you've made some additional points here that I think is really helpful in interpreting the article and putting it to work. So, that's our hope here at Next Sunday. Anything we do, we're hoping that you get a practical nugget out of it and that you can take it home and somehow or another maybe next Sunday things can change for the better. Absolutely. See you next time.